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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK

$100m Aquarium in a Times Square Skyscraper?

Looks like some empty rental space could turn into a $100 million aquarium slash pirate museum in Times Square... definitely didn't see that one coming.

http://gothamist.com/2010/02/10/100_million_aquarium_may_be_coming.php

Apparently this space has been sitting empty since the building went up in 2007.
Question asked via StreetAdvisor The opinions expressed here are those of the individual and not those of Douglas Elliman.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
Wow, I can't wait to see the aquariums and the pirate exhibit. I like pirate stuff.
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
Yeah, wow. Didn't see that coming at all. How would this guy make money from investing so much in an aquarium?
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@Uraniumfish apparently it will be another 'tourist attraction' in the city which will attract tons of domestic and international tourists who will be happy to pay for yet another New York City experience.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
Hey, can't blame a guy for wanting to make a buck or two. Who doesn't like to see an aquarium? It will help bring in money to a money-strapped city.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
Either it will help bring money into Times Square or it will flop miserably. Who knows for sure....
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DBlack
DBlack 2yrs+
I did a rough calculation for you, Uraniumfish. If he charges $50 entrance fee and has 500 visitors each day, for 350 days out of each year, he brings in 8.75 million. He'll turn a profit in about 12 years.

He'll also have maintenance costs and rent, but he could sell soft drinks and T-Shirts and whatnot to make the extra income that will pay for the upkeep.

Now who's the math geek...
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ajadedidealist
ajadedidealist 2yrs+
I can't say I'm interested - there are plenty of aquariums in NYC (now, a PIRATE museum?!) It's just that it seems like a bunch of meaningless fluff...just another way to spend lots of money for no reason.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
Actually, ajadedidealist, remember that every time someone buys something from his store in the building, if he goes that route, he charges NYC tax. Also, if he charges admission. those tickets may be also accessed a tax. You won't see it because he'll include the tax in the cost of the ticket.

There are many ways he can not only make money for himself, but also help the city economically. He may have to hire people to care for the building and aquarium. I figure the money he could make for the city is a lot.
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@DBlack $50 entrance! aI bit steep don't you think?
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DBlack
DBlack 2yrs+
@ uptowngirl Right, good point. I did figure a high admission price. Since this thing is planned for Times Square, I'm guessing it's aimed right at tourists with money to spend on dumb attractions. Compare admission to the Empire State Building, which can cost you a cool $45 if you take the express pass. Or compare Broadway shows which can cost upwards of $120 for a single ticket. Maybe the real admission price will be less, but I doubt it will be too much less.

@ajadeidealist Right, I agree. This thing is going to be marketed to tourists for sure. No New Yorker would ever go to such a dumb exhibit. Can't you see the corny, cartoon signage and stuffed orcas for sale already?
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ajadedidealist
ajadedidealist 2yrs+
Ugh - I can't stand touristy things in NY - some of the most beautiful and wonderful attractions of the city (Staten Island Ferry, a walk in Central Park) are free.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
Well, ajadedidealist. Remember, NYC is a tourist city. It was built for tourist. And without tourist, this city would have collapsed a long time ago. I hate to see all those people myself, but when I think about it, every dime they spend in stores goes toward the city as revenue, it will help the city get out of its fiscal downfall. At least we hope so.
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@hhusted You're right NYC depends a lot on tourist traffic. It seems 45.25 million tourists visited NYC last year making it the top US city in terms of tourist traffic.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-01-04/nyc-is-top-2009-u-s-tourist-draw-bloomberg-says-update1-.html
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
@ajadedidealist I'm with you on this one - the whole thing sounds unbearably ridiculous, and a pirate museum is more than out of place in the middle of Times Square; it's absurd.
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DBlack
DBlack 2yrs+
Never underestimate the spending power of the tacky tourist. And the marketing power of the people who cater to them.
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
$50 is way too much for an aquarium.... they wouldn't get very much traffic for tickets like that.
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
@ DBlack Really funny. Though I agree maybe $50 is too steep. They'd have to be able to offer a whole lot of bells and whistles to charge that much admission.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
I looked up some aquariums and they seem to range in prices from $2.50 per person admission to $30. I haven't seen one yet that was priced as high as $50.
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ajadedidealist
ajadedidealist 2yrs+
How much is Madame Tussauds - does anyone know? That's the epitome of tourist trap for me.
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@ajadedidealist just looked it up , its $35 but don't most tourists use cards like the NYC Pass(http://www.newyorkpass.com/) which helps you save on entrance fees for each individual attraction?
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DBlack
DBlack 2yrs+
All right,okay, all right. I see I've been voted down to $35 as an admission fee for our future acquarium. To bring in the same amount of money per day as above, they would have to have 740 visitors each day instead of my 500 guess. That still very very realistic, though.

For the record, Lion King tickets are $68 and South Pacific tickets are $75, and how much more corny can you get? Talk about tourist schlock, right? And how long does the - entertainment - last? Two hours max? Tourists can be fooled into spending their money on the dumbest stuff, is what I'm saying.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
I'm sure this aquarium will rent space to vendors - and likely really fancy ones. I imagine an upscale restaurant in an aquarium will bring in some cash. You could chew on some beluga caviar and watch the guppies swim by!
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@DBlack: Usually broadway shows run about 4 hours with a 15 minute intermission. I went to see 42nd St and it ran for 5 hours. The tickets cost me $85 each.

Talking about high prices.
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
Taking together what BroadwayBK and uptowngirl said: this aquarium could be a new "Wow" factor in the making, couldn't it? As in, "I saw a Broadway show! I sat at the famous Times Square aquarium eating beluga caviar and watching the guppies swim by! Wow!"
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
This isn't really the right project to build during a recession, is it? Oh, well.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
Hey, BroadwayBK, anything that helps to boost the city financially right now is a good thing. We may not think so, but the results is what counts. Hopefully, having the aquarium here will justify the means for it being built.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
The thing is that most average spenders are not really putting their money into luxury trips or items at the moment - and what is an aquarium in a Times Square skyscraper but a complete luxury? And who is really going to go to this thing but tourists?
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
@Uraniumfish Or maybe they could build a new Broadway theater INSIDE the aquarium. Then tourists could watch the latest production of Rent as the guppies swim by.
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
@BroadwayBK However much I might object to the concept and the aesthetics of this, a big aquarium WILL employ a whole lotta people. Also, in the construction of it, not just in the upkeep. That's the advantage to NY...

@NeverSleeps Brilliant! Why didn't we think of it before!
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
I am guessing that a $100 m aquarium will actually be really incredible, like no aquarium you've ever seen. Of course I'm no expert, maybe that's the going rate to build an aquarium - but if it's going to be a Times Square institution it'll likely be dazzling. Wonder what skyscraper it's going in? Did they ever fill the space where the Virgin Megastore used to be?
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JenMac
JenMac 2yrs+
That would be awesome, @neversleeps! An aquarium in a Broadway theatre is pretty much the only way I endorse this. Can you imagine a high soprano belt with a killer whale swimming by?! Friggin awesome!
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
I think it might be hard to set up a good sound system around all that glass and water, though. The poor guppies will probably be massively confused. So throw in a few more million to make the sound decent and for some killer whale therapy sessions.
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
Now I'm just thinking this through way too much...
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JenMac
JenMac 2yrs+
Maybe that's what 2 out of the 100 million is going toward . . . and then the other 98 mill to building it and finding giant predatory animals to put in tiny water cages.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
By the options you guys are throwing out there, it seems the guy will need to spend more than what he was thinking. Actually, I don't even know if the plan was even accepted yet. I am sure whatever happens, they guy will build something that will lure people to see it. He's not going to throw a ton of money into something without getting his ROI.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
Can you imagine something that will be shown at Times Square that won't attract tourist, and cost money to take part in it. I don't think so. Any time someone creates anything over at Times Square, it will be expensive to participate and will be mainly for tourists.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
Times Square is pretty horrendously tourist-flooded, but there are a lot of suits that do business in the area, and some publications are housed in nearby buildings. So there has to be a lot of places that cater to the people who work in the area rather than just the tourists.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
You got a point there, BroadwayBK. But, why would suited businessmen be interested in looking at an aquarium. Then again, anything is possible in this city.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@DBlack: I get the idea. Give them entertainment as an escape from the pressures and stress of the day. Great idea. That is what you were implying, right?
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
DBlack is right - all the suits need is a place to have meetings where they can also be served a meal. I have a friend who used to work as a banker in the vicinity and have actually been dragged to just such places.
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DBlack
DBlack 2yrs+
@hhusted No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm responding to BroadwayBK's suggestion that you need businesses to cater to the working stiffs at Times Square, which I don't think is true. The working stiffs just need one or two places to get lunch and they don't have very high standards.
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
The killer whales will certainly need therapy. Did you hear about the one who killed the trainer?
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
Oh, DBlack. Thanks for clarifying your point.
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@Uraniumfish that was awful wasn't it?
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
@Uraniumfish That was pretty bad, but in my opinion you'd have to be crazy to get in a tank with a once-wild killer whale.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
Hopefully we don't have any incidents like this one in our Times Square attraction: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/25/leak-in-shark-filled-aquarium-in-dubai-mall/
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@Neversleeps apparently the whale dragged her by her ponytail!
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
@uptowngirl I know! And they say - though I suppose no one can really get into the mind of a killer whale - that it may have been just playing? What a horrible way to die.
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JenMac
JenMac 2yrs+
Although it is extremely sad; I mean, theyre not called killer whales for nothing. They're giant, intelligent, hunters and they're put in this tiny water cages and expected to never act out.
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ajadedidealist
ajadedidealist 2yrs+
How tragic! And yet - that's what happens when you try to cage animals - they aren't pets, just because they're in captivity, and it's dangerous to treat them as such...
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@JenMac so true.. apparently out in the Ocean they travel for miles everyday and in the water park they are expected to live in a tank which can perhaps make them go crazy..the orca that did this -Tilikum apparently has a history of such behavior.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@Ajadedidealist: I agree with you about the whale and how it should have been treated. Any time you cage an animal that was meant to be in wide open water, it will lash out in some way. Whales are meant to be in the wide open seas.

I feel bad for the lady. According to the park, the lady was a professional trainer and never got into the water with the whale. At least this is what they claimed. We all read conflicting reports. No matter how it happened. It is bad situation.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
@JenMac That's exactly what I said when I heard the story. And uptowngirl has a good point, too, the thing was probably bored out of its mind with nowhere to go and nothing to do.
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
@BroadwayBK Except stare at the stupid tourists...
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@Uraniumfish: I liked it when you said "stare at the stupid tourists." That made me laugh. Thanks.
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ajadedidealist
ajadedidealist 2yrs+
Haha, @uraniumfish. Clearly the whales should be paying, and the tourists on display...
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@Ajadedidealist: I like your way of thinking. You put a smile on my face. :)
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
Someone should make a museum where the tourists are the display. I would pay to gawk. Shouldn't be too hard to get them in there, just advertise the place as some sort of overpriced attraction - they will flock.
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ajadedidealist
ajadedidealist 2yrs+
I'd pay too! Or, a brilliant venture - tourists on one side, NYC natives on the other side - and have both sides pay to look at the other side
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@Ajadedidealist and @NeverSleeps: You have me cracking up here. :) You two are funny. I like the idea of putting of the tourist as an attraction. Then we can laugh at them for coming.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
I have to admit that tourists sometimes really brighten my day. I just love how happy they seem to be here, and they don't take the city for granted like its inhabitants tend to do. Yes, they can be annoying in packs, but sometimes they are really adorable.
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
@ajadedidealist Good call! It is somehow less offensive if we are gawking at each other! I wonder why no one has thought of this yet...
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@BroadwayBk they are especially adorable when they come and spend their much needed dollars in the city!
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@Uptowngirl: Without the tourist, this city would crumble financially.
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
I don't know if I find tourists adorable in any way.... Luckily they don't come out to Park Slope too often.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
@hhusted They were elderly, they had every right to walk slowly down the stairs, they just should have had some consideration for other by not blocking the entire stairway. I wasn't really bothered, personally, but plenty of people behind me didn't hesitate to make their negative feelings known.
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ajadedidealist
ajadedidealist 2yrs+
A Phantom of the Opera nose ring sounds fantastic, in a strange/eccentric way. Cooler than a T-Shirt, at any rate.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@JenMac: Wow. I am trying to visualize the look of those apes. I can't even imagine what they look like. But if I saw an ape with human eyes, I may just freak out, thinking maybe we are being invaded my aliens from Mars or some place.
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ajadedidealist
ajadedidealist 2yrs+
That does sound indeed creepy, @Jenmac - I do feel for animals who live in cages - I've never really thought about the ethics of zoos before, but I imagine living in captivity is far inferior to living in the wild. Although I suppose there's a strong case to be made for preserving endangered species...
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JenMac
JenMac 2yrs+
Yes, ajadedidealist, I do see the merits of protecting certain species. But, it was so incredibly sad, I couldn't take it. There's an abandoned zoo from the 1920's in Griffith Park in Los Angeles. We went to it once just for kicks and it blew our minds. The cages (they were actually cages) were so tiny and there were signs that indicated that things like lions and bears were in them. I guess we've come a long way in the last century, at least.
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
@ajadediealist I had the same feelings about the Phantom of the Opera ring, though it would probably be one of those things that I'd buy and never actually wear.

@JenMac I've actually been to a chimp farm, which was far more depressing than the zoo you described above. Anyway, long story short, one of the angry chimps had really good aim and, well, got me in the khaki shorts. I was twelve or something, and I don't think I've really been to an actual zoo since.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@Everybody: My favorite zoo is the petting one. I like going in and petting the animals. I like also feeding them. I even taught my girlfriend how to milk a cow. What fun.
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JenMac
JenMac 2yrs+
neversleeps: Ahahahahahaha! I don't mean to laugh at your pain, but I did laugh out loud when I read your story.
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
@JenMac My little cousins thought it was pretty hilarious at the time, too. Those are one animal that should be put behind glass, if they've got to be in cages at all.
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JenMac
JenMac 2yrs+
Hmmmm, I dunno, I kinda feel like maybe bears should be behind glass too . . .they seem awfully dextrous :)
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
Aren't they usually down in massive pits?
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
The closest thing I've been to a zoo lately is Busch Gardens in Tampa... I always feel really sorry for the animals that are forced to live in a theme park. I can barely last one day in such a place.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@BroadwayBK: I believe the animals that are in theme parks are under controlled environments. At least that is what I was told by someone who worked at a theme park.
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ajadedidealist
ajadedidealist 2yrs+
@hhusted - you sound like my boyfriend! We were in the Cotswolds a few months ago and walking through some grass fields. We found a cow - I was afraid it would attack/kick/etc me, and my boyfriend had to convince me that cows were perfectly nice/sweet/safe
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@Ajadedidealist: Cows won't hurt you unless they are provoked, then they will throw up their back legs and swish you hard with their tail. I assume neither of you went and touched the cow or even milked it.
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JenMac
JenMac 2yrs+
Who would just randomly walk up to a cow and milk it?
And what does "controlled environment" mean, exactly?
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@JenMac: Oh, I have heard stories of people who did go up and touch a cow that was grazing in a field. They didn't do it again.

As for a controlled environment, this is where there is much security, safety, and control. In other words, the animals are well cared for. Basically, it is an enclosure on a piece of land designed to hold specimens of a listed threatened or protected animal species in a way that will not be harmful to others.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
The animals at Busch Gardens, though, are the kind that would really be happier roving around - at least that's what I always think when I look down in those deep pits at the lions and hippos and whatnot. They are massive beasts, and they make the theme park seem really small.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
And - whoa! - these conversations take such strange turns sometimes, and suddenly we are chatting about randomly going up to cows and milking them!

Back in Florida, during my formative years, I heard plenty of tell of people tipping over sleeping cows. But not so much randomly milking them.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@Everybody: Just out of curiosity, how many people in this forum know how or have milked a cow?
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
I guess no one has read this forum topic in a while. Just for anyone's interest, not only have I milked a cow, I taught my girlfriend how to do it.
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