Blood on Train Tracks Concerns MTA

This one eerily matches the statistic I know about February being the month with the disproportionately high suicide rates. Plus, this one has been a particularly brutal winter. Really sad stuff.

I know, Uraniumfish. When I first read the report, I was shocked by the many suicides that were committed in subways. What makes subway trains an attraction for those committing suicide. I truly wonder.

They make a good point in the article that having someone jump in front of a train is traumatizing to everyone who experiences. How much more selfish can you get that trying to kill yourself in that way...I think this makes me angry more than anything else.

I think killing yourself is selfish no matter how you do it - of course jumping in front of the train is ultimately horrible for those around you, but it's better than jumping out of a window and possibly taking others with you? Just trying to look on the bright side here, even if it is February.

But you can hurt others by jumping too, right? If the train has to come to an abrupt stop? Can trains get derailed? Anyway, this is all too grisly. One more day, and we've all survived February!

I suppose there is a slightly grim bright side there, @neversleeps. One thing is suicide, which is selfish enough, but risking the lives of others is especially so!

@Uraniumfish, if the train is traveling at a tremendous speed, and it hits the brakes, it could derail, but most of the time the trains are not going that fast. It will just make a loud squealing noise when stopping. Plus people on the train will be forced forward. That wouldn't be too great, especially if people landed on top of each other.

Also, think how the train engineer would feel seeing someone jump the track in front of him, and he couldn't stop in time. He'd feel so bad, he might need therapy to overcome it.

I agree with all of you that committing suicide is a selfish act. If we only knew what they were thinking before committing such an act. Obviously, they are in some sort of mental or emotional pain to do that.

I really can't imagine what kind of a head space you'd have to be in to jump in front of a train... I just can't even fathom it.

I agree. It's so selfish. I would never recover if I witnessed something like that.

@BroadwayBK: When you are down that low, you don't even think about it. All you want is to end the pain. You will find the most advantageous way possible to do it, that is not too messy nor loud. Being a part time counselor, I have had to deal with these issues. I actually had to talk a girl out of committing suicide once. After I got her off a train platform, I took her to my office personally, and had a long talk with her. I found out that all she wanted was to be shown love from her mother. Her mother worked at two jobs. The girl's father had just died and she had no one to take care of her. She felt abandoned. How would you feel in that situation.

I contacted her mother and had a long talk. I managed to get her mother and the girl together. After the mother found out what happened and they talked, the mother agreed to spend more time with her daughter. The mother quit one job and agreed to work longer hours at the first job. This allowed her to be home with her daughter more often. Do you know, I contacted the girl after two months and she had such a cheery voice to her. She was happy.

Imagine if I wasn't there when she was thinking of killing herself.

If she was that easily talked out of killing herself -- I wonder how serious it was. Usually, people with suicidal inclinations don't really just get over it.

Wasn't it Elizabeth Wurtzel who pointed out just how selfish and self-indulgent the nature of depression actually is? And she speaks from experience.

@JenMac: I never said how long it took. I only said I talked to her. Trust me. It did not happen in one session or overnight. It happened over the course of a few days.

@NeverSleeps: I completely agree with you. People who are depressed normally act out for selfish reasons. The self-indulgent is stuff you or I would not do. I've seen all kinds in my work.

I wonder what percentage of suicides either don't intend to kill themselves or secretly hope someone will stop them? Most of the survivors, I'd reckon, and a tragic proportion of the "success" stories.

Well, ajadedidealist, the overall rate was 10.9 suicide deaths per 100,000 people in 2006. According to the NIMH (National Institute of Mental Health) an estimated 12 to 25 attempted suicides occur per every suicide death.

If you would like to know more here is a link to the stats:

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-statistics-and-prevention/index.shtml

@ajadedidealist I think you're probably right.... It seems like a lot of attempted suicides are probably desperate cries for help/attention, rather than someone actually wanting to end things completely.

@BroadwayBK: You are right. When helping people, I found this out myself. Everyone has a born need for attention. They want affection and love. This is only natural. And when they don't get it, they seek ways to get the attention.

@Uraniumfish I wonder if selfishness and crazyness are related...?

Interesting, @uraniumfish - I never knew that. How strange and unsettling...

@DBlack They seem to go hand-in-hand, don't they?

@Uraniumfish That's a really good point.

Does it seem strange to anyone else just how many people are classified as clinically depressed? I mean, we all get a little sad sometimes, but is there really a major need for antidepressant commerciasl to constantly be on national television? Sheesh.

@NeverSleeps Yeah, they do seem to go hand in hand.

@JenMac and NeverSleeps My foreign friends have pointed out how this seems to be very American, the idea of being depressed to the point where you need to be medicated. My French friend was talking about how a lot of people in NY went on medication after September 11. As he said, "Well, duh, of course you'd feel depressed after living through an experience like that! It's only normal!" His point was in Europe they don't necessarily rush to medicate you just because you feel bad. It's a natural part of life to feel bad and it's considered normal. In his opinion, Americans are totally intolerant of any kind of difficult emotions.

@DBlack I would agree with those sentiments. Really, how prevalent can clinical depression be? Surely things aren't that bad in the world's richest nation that we all need to go out and seek medical attention. It's like Americans expect life to be like one of those cheesy Hollywood movies they are always watching.

@JenMac Yeah, that's my point - medicine should be reserved as a last resort, while I think many people would greatly benefit from a better diet and some freakin' exercise.

@NeverSleeps Hah, totally agree with the better diet and friggin' exercise thing. I have a friend who's a doctor, a general practitioner, and she said half her job involves telling people basic things like, "It's a good idea to go outside your apartment once a day," or, "You should try to include at least one or two vegetables into your diet." No wonder people are sick, mentally and physically.

@BroadwayBK That ad was hysterical.

@DBlack Really? People don't even leave once a day? Or eat any vegetables? Ahhh, no wonder those pharm companies are making a killing. And how depressing to do all those years of med school to end up just giving common sense advice all day. At least she gets to charge for it...

@DBlack Glad you enjoyed.

@NeverSleeps Well I don't think she sees it as especially depressing because she's the type who genuinely wants to help people. You know how those type are, always doing thankless work and not expecting much in return...She makes a decent living, but if she'd wanted to make the big bucks she would have become a surgeon.

Well, I'm glad it works out then. I personally might go crazy if I had to tell people it's a good idea to go outside at least once a day, every day, over and over again.

Instead of telling people the same thing over again, just record it and when the patient comes in, have them listen to a recording, get the fee and the patient leaves. :) Just a little bit of dry humor.

@everyone this just came in .. seems a girl was killed by the No.6 train at 77th Street and Lexington Avenue in my neighborhood.. not clear whether she was pushed or was playing ... OMG!!
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/girl-fatally-struck-by-train-at-77th-street/?src=twt&twt=nytimes

Ugh...the phrase "crushed to death" really disturbs me. What a horrible end.

@BroadwayBK: And when I close my eyes and visualize it, I get nauseous. Imagine if we were there to see it.

@hhusted and BroadwayBK 77th and Lexington is my go to subway station I imagine I would have been totally traumatized if I had witnessed that accident.

@everyone apparently the lady who was killed was a lawyer who lived in Stuyvesant Town and she jumped on the tracks to retrieve her gym bag!!!!!
http://www.dnainfo.com/20100312/midtown-east-kips-bay/woman-killed-by-6-train-was-lawyer-who-lived-stuyvesant-town

@uptowngirl What! How can anyone be so stupid?

@Uraniumfish I don't believe in talking ill of the deceased..but she was crazy to jump on train tracks for a stupid gym bag!

@uptowngirl Seriously, how can a bag be worth your life? Don't people know any better?

I wonder if there was more in the gym bag then what people have been telling. After all, not to take light of the situation, but why would she be so desperate to go after a gym bag. I mean, usually the only thing in a gym bag are trunks, top, smelly towel, and maybe stuff like soap or perfume. That isn't enough to get killed over.

And since she is a former attorney, maybe she had something secret in that bag she did not want anyone to know about. Oh well, I guess it is my imagination running wild on me.

@hhusted believe me I had the same chain of thought... we will never know now..

It seems suicidal to even THINK about going down into those tracks, gym bag or no. I know if my bag fell down there, I would just consider it lost forever and move on. No way on this earth I'd get down there and try to retrieve it. What could she have been thinking?

I guess she never paid attention to those signs that are everywhere, telling people to get an attendant if they drop something in the tracks.

I had a friend who stupidly and drunkenly fell off the platform and onto the tracks. He landed right on his own backpack, breaking a bottle of red wine that was inside of it. He got out okay, but his carelessness was really infuriating.

And isn't the third rail electrified? That's reason enough to not ever go down there, especially because I have no idea which one is the electrified one.

@NeverSleeps: The third rail is electrified only if you touch the inside. According to an MTA rep, there is 500 volts running through that rail. The outside is okay. It is insulated. If the outside were electrified the track would short from the rain and snow.

@Everybody the New York post in its Saturday edition listed the contents of her gym bag which contained keys, deodorant, sneakers and a cell phone. Its crazy to think that she lost her life over these easily replaced items. Btw what do you have to do when you happen to drop something accidentally on the tracks? do you call the attendant or contact the MTA by phone? Do they have ways and means to retrieve your belongings if need be?

@hhusted I assumed as much - but why do they always warn you about the electrified third rail if it can't harm you?

@uptowngirl That is really disturbing. And doesn't it seem like a gym bag would stay beneath the tracks if the train were to go over it? There is a lot of space between them and the ground, it seems like. Unless of course it was balanced right on the track? Yeah...maybe I should stop thinking about this. There is no way that I would go down there for anything. I think you would have to get an attendant, as you can't really make a call in the subway it seems like the fastest way to get some assistance.

MTA suggests telling the agent at the booth: http://www.mta.info/nyct/safety/

I didn't think there was anything in the gym bag worth saving - I might be really pained if my cell phone fell into the tracks, but I wouldn't think twice about not going down there to get it!

@NeverSleeps I have to stop thinking about it as well, I was just wondering the other day if I would have done something to save her if I had witnessed the event. After all I could have been there as it my go-to-subway station. If she froze and flattened herself against the platform couldn't people have hauled her up? also at that station you can actually see the train coming in at a fair distance I wish she had checked before jumping on the tracks.. I am becoming too morbid now..

@NeverSleeps: The reason they warn you about the third rail is to keep you off the tracks altogether. They figure if they told you that you could get electrocuted, you might be hesitant about going on the tracks.

@Uptowngirl: When you are scared, your mind goes into shutdown mode and you don't think at all. You just observe. I know, because I studied the human mind for years. There are cases where people do react and do something. That is because these people are not scared. They don't allow fear to bother them. They see someone in need of help and take action.

@JenMac my thoughts exactly it does seem strange that she wasnt helped to safety.

Maybe someone did try to get to her, do we know that they didn't?

@BroadwayBK: That is what I stated in my comment. We don't know what happened. Perhaps someone could have tried but got scared when the train approached.

@Uptowngirl: I remember reading the article and according to witnesses, the only part of her head that was visible was the very top and the fingers. That was it. Oh, my, I can't even imagine what got squashed. Was it her head or the entire body.

I hate to ask, but did you see any blood around the spot where she was killed, or maybe torn flesh, or anything like that. Sorry for being so graphic.

Apparently the train came unexpectedly, so any passenger jumping in to help her would have been suicidal. THey tried to help her lift herself up to safety after she didn't listen to their first exhortations to lie down, face flat, so that the subway would pass over her, but not in time...

@hhusted No I didnt see anything but I am sure the MTA ground staff cleaned it up asap.

@ajadedidealist If you say the train came unexpectedly , then here's another reason to support the installation of those electronic indicators which stations in London and other cities are equipped with which tell you exactly when the train is going to arrive.

Oh my god, it's just so terrible. All I keep thinking is . . ."over a gym bag?!!!!"

Hmmm... I've only briefly been to San Francisco, but it didn't really seem like BART was as extensive as the trains we have here, though their system was much cleaner.

@BroadwayBK: When did you go to San Fran? I went there late last year, and the BART had expanded a great deal.

@Neversleeps - at least it's better than the London Tube. Major lines are always closed for repairs/maintenance/etc - it's so hard to get around!

@Ajadedidealist; I do not know anything about London, but from what you described, it seems that the subway lines are running inconsistently. Is that a fair assumption?

@ajadedidealist I think the London Underground is especially bad on the weekends when they are forever doing engineering works on the lines though last time I was there I was stuck at Bond Street Station on a week day because they suddenly shut down the entire Jubilee Line because a commuter fell ill! I panicked for a minute but then was guided by the staff to use the Northern Line which also serves my destination of London Bridge station. All in all I learned a new route to get home as I almost always use only the Jubilee line.

@hhusted I know that BART has expanded outside of the city, but I am talking about within San Fran - it's often better to just take the bus there.

@ajadedidealist Agreed; another thing that is better about the subway vs.some European trains is that it runs 24 hours a day - even if it can be a long wait during early morning hours.

@BroadwayBK; Oh, I see. Yes, the BART does stop at two places in San Fran. After that you have to take the bus everywhere. I talked to someone at the BART and was told they are planning for expansion in the city itself, but that wouldn't get done until by 2015. They said the plans were approved, it is just getting the funding from the state to help pay for some of the work.

Uptowngirl: I remember going on the subway to my home, when I lived in the Bronx. I had to get to 180th St stop. Well I got as far as the Grand Concourse and was told the train would go no further. No one would tell me how to get to 180th St. Finally, a MTA employee told me I had two choices. I could take a shuttle to 180th St, or I could catch a cab. I couldn't find the shuttle so I ended up taking a Livery cab. I shared one with a nice lady. Each of us paid $10 for the ride.

That was a nightmare experience. I'm glad I don't have to go through that anymore.

Do other cities with underground systems have the same kinds of problems with people jumping in front of trains, or is this only a NYC phenomenon?

Is jumping in front of trains a huge problem? I mean, how many people actually become train fatalities in a year?

@BroadwayBK Here's the statistic directly from the article:

"In each of the last three years, there were between 89 and 98 people hit on the tracks."

Not exactly an epidemic, but still a lot of people. I don't know how other cities fare with this, though.

Ah, that's what I get for glossing over things...

@DBlack I think this phenomenon is quite common in other cities as well. In Mumbai where I used to live people have a bad habit of crossing the rail tracks of overground trains as they dont like to walk up the overhead platforms. Many of these foolhardy souls are killed unfortunately but even then they dont head warnings and continue to cross this way.

@Everyone more deaths on the subway - an 18 year old was struck and killed by the no.1 train on 116 street and another body that of a woman was found on the N line in Bensonhurst on Sunday. That body was clad only in panties apparently when a train passes over you your clothes are blown off due to the force hence only the panties and police presume the women fell while she was walking between compartments. The MTA statistics indicate that the city has already experienced 36 subway deaths this year far more than the total of 90 in 2009. A sobering thought for sure!

Oh, that's just awful! The one-legged woman, right? What's happening to this city? Or are we just more aware now that we blog/post about it - maybe this stuff has always been going on...

I hope it's just that we talk about it more.

@Uraniumfish: As for jumping in front of trains, I have no idea if this is a local problem or nationwide. Perhaps a bit of research is in order.

@Everybody: It seems this city is full of crazy (no pun intended) people.

Even if he didn't hurt anyone; can you imagine just standing on the street and seeing that?! So incredibly selfish.

@uptowngirl OFF THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING! Man, I really need to pay more attention to the news. It is seriously scary to think about the consequences of being under some fool when he decides to jump...

@everyone Ever been up to the top of the Empire? Seems like it would be hard to get over all of that railing on the observatory deck. Unless he went out another way? A window?

@Everyone He has been identified as a Yale Student- Cameron Dabaghi and he jumped from the observation deck itself.. can you imagine how horrified all those tourists must be who witnessed the incident?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/31/empire-state-building-suicide-jump_n_519490.html

Yale's having quite a tragic year. My former classmate, who was there, passed away this year as well.

@ajadedidealist I am sorry to hear that.. what's it with these Ivy League schools though? for there have been a spate of suicides as Cornell as well this year.

Isn't it the pressure cooker of an Ivy League? These kids are under so much pressure. I mean, nowadays they have to plan their college when they're like six years old. And, then they get there and it's so competitive, and there aren't even any jobs waiting when they're done.

Then there was that story about the Harvard girl who went nuts and bludgeoned her roommate to death. And was it at Harvard or at Yale that that guy murdered his graduate student supervisor and stuffed her inside the chemistry wall? Those are only some of the more lurid ones I remember hearing. But during my time at Columbia, not one but two kids killed themselves by jumping. Come to think of it, no, it was three. Sheesh.

Now jumping off the Empire State Building you HAVE to be seriously deranged. Just the idea of looking down from that height scares the begeezus out of me. Do you think that guy was going for the glamor of dying that way? Are people that ridiculous and selfish?

Right... I have a friend who went to Brown and he was relieved to get into the real world of banking. Apparently banking is a world away and much easier than attending Brown.

But I went to a crappy state college in Florida and people were prone to jumping off buildings there, too. Maybe not as often, however.

@DBlack I definitely think he wanted to do it for the sensationalism. That was actually my first thought.

@Everybody: According to a friend of mine, Yale has had 30 suicide attempts in the last 5 years. He did not tell me how many of them were successful though.

@Everybody: I almost forgot to mention one thing. In this day and age, parents put so much pressure on their kids to be overachievers. This way their kids to be better than they did. So they pressure them to conform. They force them to attend a college or university they may not like, paying most of the expenses. No wonder kids are depressed. Look what they go through.

Uh... I think it's a good thing to encourage your kid to go to college. What else are they going to do, flip burgers? Work at AT&T?

@BroadwayBK LOL, yeah, all my parents ever did was insist I go to college and work hard to make something of myself, and that TOTALLY screwed me up!

@DBlack and BroadwayBK: In my comment above, I was not suggesting parents should not encourage their kids to go to college, I am saying they should not put so much pressure on their kids to go to a college the parents want. If the kids want to go to college, at least allow them to choose the college they want, not what the parents want.

@DBlack: How is it you are screwed up? Are you alive and breathing? Do you have a job? Are you in a relationship? Do you have a place to live? If your answer to most of these questions is yes, you are not screwed up. You are actually living better than many people in this city and in this country.

I was nearby the 116th st station when that suicide came in. Scary scary stuff.

@DBlack Ha, ME TOO!

@hhusted That was a joke, dude.

@DBlack agreed...

@DBlack: I agree that positive reinforcement is good for kids. It encourages them to do good and to achieving greater goals.

But at the same time you don't want to spoil them rotten and let them get away with anything.